Descendants of Jesus Christ

[kilbysg]

Matthew 1:1-17
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Mary begat Jesus Christ.

Is Jesus Christ's bloodline really connects from the bloodline of Abraham, David, Solomon upto Joseph?

[XellosMoon]

I doubt. There really isnt any concrete evidence other than those banned gospels.

[KillaCrab]

bishop would be in a better position answer this

since there are several argument about the genealogy of jesus..

anyway just to be clear.. kindly change the topic to genealogy rather than bloodline since bloodline is associated with existing lines rather than the ancestry of jesus

[bishop]

Kilb..

The 'short answer' is "yes".

The Jews are fanatical about bloodlines.

1. The Author(s) of the gospel would not take this fact lightly. And would not write about Jesus' bloodline if indeed it cannot be backed up.

2. Mathew is (was) an Orthodox Jew prior to following Jesus. Hence, he knew about the Law and how important it is to prove one's lineage.

So again, in writting the gospel, he (Mathew) would not take this fact lightly.

I'm sure you have other questions regarding this.

I will not presume and would rather wait for your questions and address them as they come along.

(Welcome to the Grey Area)

[Aga Mulat]

Everybody, may I recommend that this thread be given importance enough to not allow any comments that deviates from the topic?

May I ask the moderator and avid readers and subscribers to this thread to take action when a non-essential post is entered?

I for one would like to truly understand and gain knowledge on bloodline, bloodties, family ties of Jesus Christ without having to read through loiterers'/ spammers' and flamers' posts.

Thank you for your consideration.

[samuraiX]

when we say bloodline, are we talking about the family tree of jesus, where jesus came from and does jesus has offspring for the bloodline to continue? i wonder if his relatives has bloodlines up to present time?

[kilbysg]

Thank you for everyone for your comment.

@Bishop, everyone I have asked about this one "Where is Jesus Christ's Bloodline belong to? Is it should be with Joseph or with Mary?

According to the Holy Bible Scriptures, Jesus was begat by Joseph and so on from the fathers of King Solomon, from David and from Abraham. But Joseph and Mary never had intertwined (what I mean is sexual intercourse), so Biologically, Jesus' bloodline from Joseph is irrelevant.

And why they didn't mentioned the bloodline of Mary belonged to?

In my opinion, Virgin Mary's origin should be the one mentioned on the scriptures, not Joseph's.

And another one, why are they (Sectas of Christian Religion) shouts that Jesus is from sons of David and Abraham.


Regarding the title, i have changed it to a proper title. I think this would fit.

[samuraiX]

Matthew's Account: Let's first begin by looking at Matthew's account of the lineage of Christ. Matthew, who was also called Levi, was one of the original twelve apostles. Matthew was a publican, a Jew who collected taxes for the Roman government. Therefore, he was despised by the Jewish people.

Matthew's gospel, however, was written for the Jewish people. Matthew tries to convince the Jews that Jesus Christ was indeed the royal son of David. Seven times in the Matthew's Gospel we see where the statement "son of David" is used (1:1, 9:27, 12:23, 15:22, 20:30, 21:9, 22:42). Only in Matthew does Christ speak of "The throne of his glory" (19:28, 25:31). And only in Matthew is Jerusalem referred to as "the holy city" (4:5). Therefore, Matthew spends a great deal of time trying to convince the Jewish people that Jesus Christ was indeed the "King of the Jews" (27:29, 27:37).

Matthew begins with Abraham, the "Father" of the Jewish nation, then follows the line through David the King. Each individual that Matthew lists is of royal lineage. This gives evidence of the royal blood line of Jesus.

As Matthew continues to follow the line from David to Christ, Matthew traces the lineage through Jesus' earthly father, Joseph. This, too, indicates that Matthew is writing to the Jewish people. During first century times, if a Jewish man adopted a son, that son receives the father's lineage. Therefore, according to Jewish tradition, Jesus would be given the genealogy of his adopted father.


Luke's Account: Luke was known as the "Beloved Physician." He was a follower and companion of Paul. Luke's gospel was written primarily for the Greeks or Gentiles. This is identified through Paul, who first took his message to the Jews, and when the Jews rejected him, went to the Greeks. Luke's gospel emphasizes the perfect humanity of Christ. Tracing Christ's lineage all the way back to Adam, Luke lets the Greeks know that Christ's sacrifice is for all of mankind, not simply for the Jews.

Luke's gospel, being written for the Greeks, would not be as interested in the royal lineage of Christ, rather his true earthly lineage. In Luke's account of the genealogy of Christ, it is my opinion, that Luke traces Christ's ancestry through his mother, Mary. I say this because Luke only mentions Joseph to identify who Christ was. "As was supposed the son of Joseph," (3:23). The genealogy of Luke and the genealogy of Matthew agree exactly with the line between Abraham and David. From David to Mary in Luke, or from David to Joseph in Matthew, the lineage changes. Only three times do the two different accounts mention the same names, Shealtiel, Zerubbabel, and possibly Matthat (Matthan in Matthew). This can be explained very easily. Mary and Joseph were first cousins.

Only in the twentieth century has this become a form of taboo. We even had a President who married a cousin. The ancient Egyptians were so tied to keeping the royal blood line pure that the Pharaoh King could only marry his sister or at the least first cousin to produce a pure blood line to the throne.


We are born with two genealogies, one from our father and the other from our mother. It stands to reason that if Luke traces through Mary, and Matthew through Joseph, then Christ will have two different genealogies. If my theory is correct, and the account of Matthew traces through Joseph, and Luke traces through Mary, the combined accounts may read like this:

God who was the father of Adam, who was the father of Seth, who was the father of Enos, who was the father of Cainan, who was the father of Mahalalel, who was the father of Jared, who was the father of Enoch, who was the father of Methuselah, who was the father of Lamech, who was the father of Noah, who was the father of Shem, who was the father of Arpachshad, who was the father of Cainan, who was the father of Shelah, who was the father of Eder, who was the father of Peleg, who was the father of Reu, who was the father of Serug, who was the father of Nahor, who was the father of Terah, who was the father of Abraham.

Abraham begot Isaac; and Isaac begot Jacob; and Jacob begot Judah and his brethren; and Judah begot Perez and Zerah of Tamar; and Perez begot Hezron; and Hezron begot Ram; and Ram begot Ammin'adab; and Amminadab begot Nahshon; and Nahshon begot Salmon; and Salmon begot Boaz of Rahab; and Boaz begot Obed of Ruth; and Obed begot Jesse; and Jesse begot David, the king; and David, the king, begot Solomon of her that had been the wife of Uriah; and Solomon begot Rehoboam; and Rehoboam begot Abijah; and Abijah begot Asa; and Asa begot Jehoshaphat; and Jehoshaphat begot Joram; and Joram begot Uzziah; and Uzziah begot Jotham; and Jotham begot Ahaz; and Ahaz begot Hezekiah; and Hezekiah begot Manasseh; and Manasseh begot Amon; and Amon begot Josiah; and Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon and after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel; and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel; and Zerubbabel begot Abiud; and Abiud begot Eliakim; and Eliakim begot Azor; and Azor begot Sadoc; and Sadoc begot Achim; and Achim begot Eliud; and Eliud begot Eleazar and Eleazar begot Matthan; and Matthan begot Jacob; and Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Jesus being the son of Joseph, [the husband of Mary, who was the daughter of] Heli, who was the son of Matthat, who was the son of Levi, who was the son of Melchi, who was the son of Jannai, who was the son of Joseph, who was the son of Mattathias, who was the son of Amos, who was the son of Nahum, who was the son of Esli, who was the son of Naggai, who was the son of Maath, who was the son of Mattathias, who was the son of Semein, who was the son of Josech, who was the son of Joda, who was the son of Joanan, who was the son of Rhesa, who was the son of Zerubbabel, who was the son of Shealtie, who was the son of Neri, who was the son of Melchi, who was the son of Addi, who was the son of Cosam, who was the son of Elmadam, who was the son or Er, who was the son of Joshua, who was the son of Eliezer, who was the son of Jorim, who was the son of Matthat, who was the son of Levi, who was the son of Simeon, who was the son of Judas, who was the son of Joseph, who was the son of Jonam, who was the son of Eliakim, who was the son of Melea, who was the son of Menna, who was the son of Mattatha, who was the son of David, the king.

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

source: The Genealogy of Jesus Christ



the thread title has change, from what i understand about descendants is that jesus has kids?

[Diabolique]

when we say bloodline, are we talking about the family tree of jesus, where jesus came from and does jesus has offspring for the bloodline to continue? i wonder if his relatives has bloodlines up to present time?

It's to my understanding that Joseph and Mary were actually distant cousins, they both could trace their roots to David.

---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

According to the Holy Bible Scriptures, Jesus was begat by Joseph and so on from the fathers of King Solomon, from David and from Abraham. But Joseph and Mary never had intertwined (what I mean is sexual intercourse), so Biologically, Jesus' bloodline from Joseph is irrelevant.

And why they didn't mentioned the bloodline of Mary belonged to?

In my opinion, Virgin Mary's origin should be the one mentioned on the scriptures, not Joseph's.

And another one, why are they (Sectas of Christian Religion) shouts that Jesus is from sons of David and Abraham.

First off, a bit of Trivia: Not once in the whole Bible was the word Virgin ever used to describe Mary the Mother of Jesus.

And as I previously stated, Mary was a distant cousin of Joseph as her Lineage could also be traced back to Abraham and David's line. So even removing Joseph from the equation, it stands through Mary's bloodline that Jesus is from the line of Abraham, David and Solomon.

[samuraiX]

It's to my understanding that Joseph and Mary were actually distant cousins, they both could trace their roots to David

i was still clarifying if the bloodline were talking about here is the great grand parents of jesus or his great grand children

but since the title has been changed to descendants im now assuming jesus has kids, grand kids, great grand kids, since thats what descendants means, next questions is do jesus has descendants?

[Shinobi73]

It's to my understanding that Joseph and Mary were actually distant cousins, they both could trace their roots to David.

---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------




First off, a bit of Trivia: Not once in the whole Bible was the word Virgin ever used to describe Mary the Mother of Jesus.

And as I previously stated, Mary was a distant cousin of Joseph as her Lineage could also be traced back to Abraham and David's line. So even removing Joseph from the equation, it stands through Mary's bloodline that Jesus is from the line of Abraham, David and Solomon.

Yes this is correct it’s just that the gospel tracks the lineage from the male side of the family but not the female’s. And with Mary being a distant relative then both would confirm that Christ is from the line of Abraham to David and so forth.

[Diabolique]

i was still clarifying if the bloodline were talking about here is the great grand parents of jesus or his great grand children

but since the title has been changed to descendants im now assuming jesus has kids, grand kids, great grand kids, since thats what descendants means, next questions is do jesus has descendants?

It's debatable if he ever sired a brood of his own as there have been speculations that he indeed had relations with Mary of Magdalene which resulted in a daughter.

Matthew 13:55

"Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?"
Matthew 27:56

"Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children."

Mark 6:3

"Is not this the carpenter, the Son of Mary, the Brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him."


Mark 15:40

"There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;"

Mark 16:1

"And when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the Mother of James, and Salome, had brought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint Him."

John 2:12

"After this He went down to Capernaum, He, and His Mother, and His Brethren, and His disciples: and they continued there not many days."

Galatians 1:19

"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

So it entirely plausible that he indeed became an Uncle.

Yes this is correct it’s just that the gospel tracks the lineage from the male side of the family but not the female’s. And with Mary being a distant relative then both would confirm that Christ is from the line of Abraham to David and so forth.

It's to my understanding, that Lineage in Judaism is important no matter whether male or female.

[samuraiX]

It's debatable if he ever sired a brood of his own as there have been speculations that he indeed had relations with Mary of Magdalene which resulted in a daughter.



So it entirely plausible that he indeed became an Uncle.




It's to my understanding, that Lineage in Judaism is important no matter whether male or female.

that is if we consider jesus to be "human" then he should have a female partner but if we see him as "divine" then he cannot be tempted by a female partner

uncle is possible but a father, too much holes, the RC doesnt recognize him as a father and a husband

[Diabolique]

that is if we consider jesus to be "human" then he should have a female partner but if we see him as "divine" then he cannot be tempted by a female partner

uncle is possible but a father, too much holes, the RC doesnt recognize him as a father and a husband

As I said, speculation, on the possibility of him being a sire.

[bishop]

Kilb,

I will try to answer your questions in a concise and precise manner. Please feel free to ask for any elaboration you might need on any of the points that I raise.

@Bishop, everyone I have asked about this one "Where is Jesus Christ's Bloodline belong to? Is it should be with Joseph or with Mary?

According to the Holy Bible Scriptures, Jesus was begat by Joseph and so on from the fathers of King Solomon, from David and from Abraham. But Joseph and Mary never had intertwined (what I mean is sexual intercourse), so Biologically, Jesus' bloodline from Joseph is irrelevant.

The Relevance and Importance of Genealogy.

We must strive to understand Scriptures the way it was first intended to be understood. In other words, to understand Scriptures we must understand ALL of its Context.

To a Jew Genealogy is very important because it allows him to trace his ancestry or roots to the very descendants whom G-D has chosen as a people. –Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses. All the Patriarchs.

And to a Jew the bloodline or Genealogy is always traced through the Mother. The Logic being is that a Father can adopt a child, but a Mother will always give birth to a child.

But here is the paradox: The culture in which the Scripture was written is ‘Patriarchal’ or Male-dominated. And as in any male-dominated culture, the female is rarely placed in the focus or “spotlight”.

Example: When it says in the Scriptures that there were a “crowed of 500”, this means that there were 500 men. The women and children are not counted. So in reality there was more than 500 people in the crowd.

But the purpose and importance of Genealogy was only one thing: To prove that a person belonged to the descendants of Abraham. In other words he is a Jew by blood. And not a Gentile.

The Genealogy of Jesus

The Genealogy of Jesus was a very special case.

But to understand the significance of the importance of Jesus’ Genealogy, we must first understand “why” this is important.

In a “nutshell” (to keep this post short), the Time Line of the Scriptures as far as salvation is concerned is as follows:

-G-D creates the world and human kind.
-Human kind sins
-G-D expels HIS creation from Eden. But at the same time G-D promises Salvation.
-G-D chooses a people in whom HE will bring forth HIS Salvation. –Abraham.
-From the bloodline of Abraham, comes the Nation of Israel.
-The Nation of Israel as a people falls from grace is subsequently punished by exile.
-G-D once again promises that HE will bring back together HIS exiled people, and that HE will make them a righteous nation once again.

And this is where it gets very interesting and confusing for many people:

G-D presents HIS promises to both bringing back HIS people from exile and bringing Salvation to mankind by way of Prophecies.

And the prophecies of both the return of Israel as a Nation and Mankind’s salvation are intertwined and are similar to the two sides to a coin.

G-D promises that HE will bring back HIS people Israel from exile by sending an “Anointed Leader” or Messiah.

And this Messiah (Anointed One) will come from the line of David. Meaning that he can trace his lineage as a King.

But at the same time, this Messiah will also bring forth Salvation to the World.

The Relevance to Matthew

Matthew was writing his book primarily to the Jews at the time. Matthew knew that the recipients and readers of his book or letter where going to be the Jewish people. So he knew that they would understand the importance and relevance of the prophecies regarding the Messiah.

So in keeping with the strict Jewish orthodox tradition, Matthew presents Jesus as the Messiah by first proving his connection to David.

Jewish tradition states that a Jew must not be united with a non-Jew (Gentile). So Mary was assumed to be a Jew by blood. Only this is not elaborated due to the male-dominant social custom of that time.

So being the Mother of Jesus, Mary has already fulfilled the requirement that the Messiah would be a true Jew. Jesus now only had to prove that HE was from the line of David.

And that is through HIS father Joseph.

And as Husband and Wife, any offspring of Joseph and Mary would be the proof of lineage.

But then Jesus was not a product of the union between Joseph and Mary. Jesus was also G-D in flesh.

And this is where Luke comes in.

Luke had both Gentiles and Jews in mind when he wrote his letter (book). And in his version of Genealogy, he pinpoints the origin of Jesus as the “Son of G-D”

Luke 3:23-27

"the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josek, the son of Joda, the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, the son of Melki,
the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of G-D. "