Parables in Homilies

[oversoul1404]

In your Opinion, is it appropriate to use Parables during homilies or for other religious intentions?

[bishop]

diba minsan sa homiliya ng mga pari, may mga kwento sila na seemingly too good to be true, tapos i-rerelate nila sa bible reading of the mass (kapag pagod na sila i discuss yung RH bill). and they would be using this to discuss about morals and ethics and other biblical teachings. hindi ba qualified as lying yun, because they are narrating something that did not really happen for the purpose of spreading/reinforcing their religion?

Depende.

You have to give a specific example ng isang kwento/homili ng pari.

[oversoul1404]

Depende.

You have to give a specific example ng isang kwento/homili ng pari.

hmm.. for example the bible reading was about repentance and forgiveness. then, the story was about an OFW who was led to the path of vices, that almost ruined his family. the turning point was that he had dream about some religious entity and that made him repent for all his sins, and thus getting his life back on track.

it's just one of the many forms of stories that i have herad and that one emerging pattern exist: create conflict that can be resolved by the moral of the bible. and that the story can anywhere be from bizarre miracle workers, corrupt politicians and people talking to demons and angels.

[pooch]

diba minsan sa homiliya ng mga pari, may mga kwento sila na seemingly too good to be true, tapos i-rerelate nila sa bible reading of the mass (kapag pagod na sila i discuss yung RH bill). and they would be using this to discuss about morals and ethics and other biblical teachings. hindi ba qualified as lying yun, because they are narrating something that did not really happen for the purpose of spreading/reinforcing their religion?

Konting ingat po sa accusations...
If the story is true, then it is not lying.
If the story is "seemingly too good to be true", you cannot say that they are lying unless you have evidence that what they are saying is false.

"seemingly too good to be true" is not equal to being false.


Or it may be the case that they are telling a parable. That is, they are painting a picture na mas madaling maintindihan at mas madaling makakarelate ang madla. There is a moral story po sa parables and ito'y nagtuturo ng bagay sa buhay even more than "lectures".... Nonetheless, malayong-malayo po ito sa pagsisinungaling.


Pooch

[oversoul1404]

Konting ingat po sa accusations...
If the story is true, then it is not lying.
If the story is "seemingly too good to be true", you cannot say that they are lying unless you have evidence that what they are saying is false.

"seemingly too good to be true" is not equal to being false.


Or it may be the case that they are telling a parable. That is, they are painting a picture na mas madaling maintindihan at mas madaling makakarelate ang madla. There is a moral story po sa parables and ito'y nagtuturo ng bagay sa buhay even more than "lectures".... Nonetheless, malayong-malayo po ito sa pagsisinungaling.


Pooch

sorry if the statement may sounded offensive. yes, pagsisinungaling may have been inappropriate . will edit it.

yes, it may seem like they are just painting a picture for the people to easily comprehend. but, they way they present the painting to the people is like they themselves has just seen it for the first time and that it was a random painting and not theirs, and that they would scrutinize the painting to decipher the subject that is the content of the bible reading. when in fact, the painting was crafted with the subject in mind.

none can verify the validity of the stories as one may be labelled as an enemy of the church for not having faith in the words of the preacher. second, plotting a story which incorporates the moral of the reading just to reveal at the end that the moral of the story is what the reading says. its just like going in loops and circles in my opinion. this is in addition to the case that they can conveniently alter any part of the story to support their intentions, be it spreading Christianity, saving humanity or just personal ambitions.

[pooch]

sorry if the statement may sounded offensive. yes, pagsisinungaling may have been inappropriate . will edit it.

Di naman po offensive.... We are all learning here sa grey areas, di po ba? Don't be afraid if you step on other toes. Ganun po talaga ang nature ng subforum na ito. hehe... Medyo mainit pero it's good... at least, natututo po tayo eh, diba?

yes, it may seem like they are just painting a picture for the people to easily comprehend. but, they way they present the painting to the people is like they themselves has just seen it for the first time and that it was a random painting and not theirs, and that they would scrutinize the painting to decipher the subject that is the content of the bible reading. when in fact, the painting was crafted with the subject in mind.

Kaw talaga kuya oversoul. Unless na malayong-malayo po ang kwento sa katotohanan, then we have to get the moral lesson of the story -- rather than the details upon which the illustration was based.
Eto baka inadequate example but this might support my point:
Yung Harry Potter na novel at yung Harry Potter the Movie, parehas po ba?

none can verify the validity of the stories as one may be labelled as an enemy of the church for not having faith in the words of the preacher. second, plotting a story which incorporates the moral of the reading just to reveal at the end that the moral of the story is what the reading says. its just like going in loops and circles in my opinion. this is in addition to the case that they can conveniently alter any part of the story to support their intentions, be it spreading Christianity, saving humanity or just personal ambitions.

Ah, I see what you mean. Then hindi po homily ang dapat ninyong pakinggan. The homily has its own function... Baka po sa "religious studies" ang nais ninyong icheck or yung "catechism" studies.
Iba po kasi ang homily eh. Supposed to be eh, ang homily is based on the gospel narrative...right? Kaya nga nasa pagkatapos siya ng reading ng ebanghelyo eh.
Now, ganito. Yung first point po ninyo seems unsubstantiated. Kapag naman po may willing heart ang nagtatanong, and talagang naghahanap ng katotohanan eh, at talagang hindi "nanta-trap" or something like that, there are priests na willing naman po for dialogue.
The second point is about the circular argument: Alin ang nageexplain, ang narrative or ang kwento? And dito na papasok ang purpose ng homily.... Iba po ito sa mere lecture.


Pooch

[oversoul1404]

Kaw talaga kuya oversoul. Unless na malayong-malayo po ang kwento sa katotohanan, then we have to get the moral lesson of the story -- rather than the details upon which the illustration was based.
Eto baka inadequate example but this might support my point:
Yung Harry Potter na novel at yung Harry Potter the Movie, parehas po ba?
Pooch

hmm, yes, they want the listeners to get the moral of the story. but i just cant appreciate it when the path going to the moral was crafted with intentions. i fell like being tricked or something. it may be just like my personal preference, but i like it better when the priest goes by: "kaya dapat maging.... tulad ng nasusulat sa bibliya" rather than: "makikita po natin sa kwentong ito (the parable)"

i don't get the harry potter analogy

Ah, I see what you mean. Then hindi po homily ang dapat ninyong pakinggan. The homily has its own function... Baka po sa "religious studies" ang nais ninyong icheck or yung "catechism" studies.
Iba po kasi ang homily eh. Supposed to be eh, ang homily is based on the gospel narrative...right? Kaya nga nasa pagkatapos siya ng reading ng ebanghelyo eh.
Now, ganito. Yung first point po ninyo seems unsubstantiated. Kapag naman po may willing heart ang nagtatanong, and talagang naghahanap ng katotohanan eh, at talagang hindi "nanta-trap" or something like that, there are priests na willing naman po for dialogue.
The second point is about the circular argument: Alin ang nageexplain, ang narrative or ang kwento? And dito na papasok ang purpose ng homily.... Iba po ito sa mere lecture.

yes, they are indeed open for dialogue. but the reality, is that none would openly challenge the validity of the stories on the spot, on the ceremony itself. and that, kapag halibawa willing magtanong ang isang tao, like me for example, parang awkward kasi una, it's like casting doubt upon his words, and second doubts about his credibility (the preacher).

[pooch]

hmm, yes, they want the listeners to get the moral of the story. but i just cant appreciate it when the path going to the moral was crafted with intentions. i fell like being tricked or something. it may be just like my personal preference, but i like it better when the priest goes by: "kaya dapat maging.... tulad ng nasusulat sa bibliya" rather than: "makikita po natin sa kwentong ito (the parable)"

Ay parehas po tayo! I say "Amen" to this point.
You should try to go to a Bible study po...Dun talagang pinagaaralan ang Biblia. Sa Misa po kasi, ito'y isang eucharist eh..isang sacrifice. Hindi naman po Biblie study ang Misa eh.

i don't get the harry potter analogy

It's ok.. Gusto ko lang banggitin dito na maybe you may want to give the speaker some "leeway" sa kanyang speeches. Yun lang naman po. hehe.

yes, they are indeed open for dialogue. but the reality, is that none would openly challenge the validity of the stories on the spot, on the ceremony itself. and that, kapag halibawa willing magtanong ang isang tao, like me for example, parang awkward kasi una, it's like casting doubt upon his words, and second doubts about his credibility (the preacher).

True.
Naiintindihan ko po...

Sa akin naman po eh, base sa karanasan ko naman, ang attitude ko po sa ganyan is that as long as na totoo, I am for it. Alam ninyo yun? Not that I don't care whether it is verifiable or not.. But since the preacher is expounding God's word -- which is the truth --- I am assuming that anuman ang dinadaldal niya is based on the solid Word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit and empowered siya at that time. Not that I will be "ripping apart" his preaching ah, may discernment naman po talaga dapat eh. Sabi kasi ni John,

(1Jn 4:1 TAB ) Mga minamahal, huwag kayong magsipaniwala sa bawa't espiritu, kundi inyong subukin ang mga espiritu, kung sila'y sa Dios: sapagka't maraming nagsilitaw na mga bulaang propeta sa sanglibutan.

Pero alam mo yun, usually po eh, give the benefit of the doubt po ako... Pero kung madalas na mangyari ito... At daig pa niya ang barbero sa pagkkwento.. Well........


Pooch

[bishop]

hmm.. for example the bible reading was about repentance and forgiveness. then, the story was about an OFW who was led to the path of vices, that almost ruined his family. the turning point was that he had dream about some religious entity and that made him repent for all his sins, and thus getting his life back on track.

it's just one of the many forms of stories that i have herad and that one emerging pattern exist: create conflict that can be resolved by the moral of the bible. and that the story can anywhere be from bizarre miracle workers, corrupt politicians and people talking to demons and angels.

Over,

There are a lot of actual recorded phenomenons that sound like total fiction or are "too good to be true".

And yet they happened. And have been recounted by credible witnesses.

Like the storyof a baby was declared dead by doctors but who regained life hours later. The doctors who reported this have no religious agenda.

My point is that G-D is not a concept. HE is as real as you and I. And as such HE is experienced by those who accept HIS reality.

Failing to realize this is what causes some to dismiss their stories as being "too good to be true".

[pooch]

My point is that G-D is not a concept. HE is as real as you and I. And as such HE is experienced by those who accept HIS reality.

Read more: Parables in Homilies

Amen!

[oversoul1404]

Over,

There are a lot of actual recorded phenomenons that sound like total fiction or are "too good to be true".

And yet they happened. And have been recounted by credible witnesses.

Like the storyof a baby was declared dead by doctors but who regained life hours later. The doctors who reported this have no religious agenda.

My point is that G-D is not a concept. HE is as real as you and I. And as such HE is experienced by those who accept HIS reality.

Failing to realize this is what causes some to dismiss their stories as being "too good to be true".

1. Agreed
2. Agreed, He is not a concept. And, yes, some of the stories are true. But, it's quite weird that they have the appropriate story for every homily about the bible reading, and that the moral of the story fits exactly as a resolution to the conflict. Yes, the conflicts mentioned exist in reality but for them to know every bit of it is just unbelievable..like a scientist studying the god particle, a legislator thinking of voting on the RH bill, and the like.

Again, I agree that He is not just a concept, but what I do not agree is how His followers professes about His greatness and existence.

[ukmac1986]

"kaya dapat maging.... tulad ng nasusulat sa bibliya" rather than: "makikita po natin sa kwentong ito (the parable)"

Sang ayon ako sa mga sinabi mo over. Minsan parang nasa panahon tayo ni padre damaso na yung mga tao takot na takot pag sinabi ng pari na magsisi kayo at sumunod sa kanya kung ayaw nyong masunog sa kaloob looban ng impyerno..hindi naman na mga bata yung sinesermonan ng pari, kahit bata capable naman maintindhan yung nilalaman ng storya nya without exagerating and using parables na malayo talaga sa katotohanan.

Naalala ko lang minsan nagsimba ako sa isang malaki at lumang simbahan sa laguna, yung kwento ng pari ay tungkol sa pagbibigay ng tulong sa mga nangangaylangan, then at the end of the story, kinompara nya yung pagbibigay ng tao ng barya barya lang daw dun sa simbahan..i was like, anyways, na share ko lang..

My point is that G-D is just a concept. HE is as not real as the toothfairy and the boogyman. And as such HE is experienced by those who wants him to be real..and that's what you call blind faith..

[bishop]

1. Agreed
2. Agreed, He is not a concept. And, yes, some of the stories are true. But, it's quite weird that they have the appropriate story for every homily about the bible reading, and that the moral of the story fits exactly as a resolution to the conflict. Yes, the conflicts mentioned exist in reality but for them to know every bit of it is just unbelievable..like a scientist studying the god particle, a legislator thinking of voting on the RH bill, and the like.

Over,

This is what a good teacher does. He studies.

Show me a teacher who has stopped his quest for knowledge, and I will show you a teacher who has become incompetent.

Again, I agree that He is not just a concept, but what I do not agree is how His followers professes about His greatness and existence.

I don't follow you.

What is it that you do not agree with?

You do not agree with HIS (G-D's) follower's lifestyle? Of what they profess?

[frango]

There was one rare time that the priest who says the mass at Centris Mall on Sundays talked about exorcism and he even recounted some of his experiences in exorcising demons from people who were possessed. He also said that the more demons possessing an individual the harder and the longer the process is to complete the exorcism rites. I thought it was strange for a priest to talk about that topic in a Sunday mass. All the years I have lived in the US, I have never heard a priest talk about exorcism. I thought I read somewhere that only a few Catholic priest can perform exorcism so not a lot of priest talk about that openly and I thought these special priests do not reveal themselves to the public as exorcism priests normally. I guess the Centris Mall priest is one of those specially-trained exorcism priests.

Well anyway, what is the difference between a homily and a sermon?? I have heard people use them interchangeably.