Kalayaang pumili

[KillaCrab]

yes we should.. but we are still prisoners of our environment and genetics.. hehehehe.. IMO humans being humans are always in denial

[pooch]

^ Sige Kuya Killa, ikaw ang gumawa ng bagong thread. Magpopost rin ako ng comments ko.hehe. (Actually, diyan nga sa comment mo eh, may gusto na akong sabihin eh. pero sa bagong thread na lang. lol)

@topic:
Hindi pa rin ata nasasagot ang mismong tanong ng thread no?

Pooch

[extrariceate]

Sa opinyon ko lang po wala tayong free will. We have the capabilities to make choices but our choices are only influenced by external or internal factors. Kapag sinabi kasing free will without influence ang ginagawa mung bagay. Imposible since there is cause to our every actions.

[Aga Mulat]

Lamnyo, que free or not, "will" still exists. It is there every second of our life. It is what makes us do what we think to do. The question should be, does that will that makes us do what we think to do, cost us anything? Did we purchase it from somewhere before we made that move? Did an outside source force us to do what we thought of doing?

If there is an outside source then it is not free but if we willed it to do what we thought to do then it is free and did not cost us anything to gain that will.

Gamitan nyo pa ng science or religion will does not change. The teacher may will me not to fly a paper airplane in her presence and I may will not to fly the paper plane in her presence. I did not follow her will but my own will. I willed not to fly the paper airplane.

Another student may will to talk to another student in the presence of the teacher who wills students not to talk. Whose will did that student act on, his or the teacher's? Did it cost him anything to gain that will or was it freely exercised?

[extrariceate]

Lamnyo, que free or not, "will" still exists. It is there every second of our life. It is what makes us do what we think to do. The question should be, does that will that makes us do what we think to do, cost us anything? Did we purchase it from somewhere before we made that move? Did an outside source force us to do what we thought of doing?

If there is an outside source then it is not free but if we willed it to do what we thought to do then it is free and did not cost us anything to gain that will.

Gamitan nyo pa ng science or religion will does not change. The teacher may will me not to fly a paper airplane in her presence and I may will not to fly the paper plane in her presence. I did not follow her will but my own will. I willed not to fly the paper airplane.

Another student may will to talk to another student in the presence of the teacher who wills students not to talk. Whose will did that student act on, his or the teacher's? Did it cost him anything to gain that will or was it freely exercised?

But what caused you not to fly the plane ??? Ginawa mu yun dahil may cause either that the cause is internally or externally. Pwede dahil ayam mu mapagalitan ng teacher mu. Every of our action has some cause to it your "will" to act is still influenced by many factors. Halimbawa I am willing to go on a diet, but what caused me to manifest that kind of behavior. Maaaring naimpluwensyahan ako ng environment at sinasabi nila na mataba ka. Then makikita natin dito na you willed to go on a diet but that certain reaction has still a reason to it

That's just my view anyways kuya aga

[Aga Mulat]

Oh and I understand you absolutely having that view and I respect that. Totoo'ng may mga tao'ng nagpapadala sa mga sinasabi ng iba as a guide to live healthy or not. Let me call that "outside will". But sa mga tao'ng nag pasya dahil ginusto nila despite of what others say (dahil meron naman naniniwala na ok lang maging unhealthy so magsasabi ng "ok lang yan mataba ka at least cute ka naman..").

Many decide on their own let me call it "inner will" or "self-will" which is not given nor bought and say, "I believe that to avoid sickness and diseases I must eat wisely and exercise daily because being fit is a sign of good health and longer life".

Ibang-iba ito sa, "Magpapapayat ako dahil sabi nila mataba daw ako kaya di ako kakain masyado."

"Self will" understands what's at stake and takes the proper direction to achieve a healthy goal while "Outer will" is a reaction to a negative comment by others and therefore will try to achieve a pampapayat goal without having any clue on how to do it properly hence, "di ako magkakakain", instead of eating right and exercising daily.

What caused me "not" to fly the plane? Simply my own will of not wanting to go through the hassle of being disciplined and enduring the hackles of fellow student. Hinde ba may mga estudyante rin na kahit sabihan no talking during class sige parin ang talking kaya napapagalitan ng teacher? Ala silang paki elam eh dahil self-will nila ang magsalita sa oras na ginusto nila despite the presence of the teacher. So can we say that the talking student talked because the teacher willed him not to talk? Parang contra di ba?

So your "internally/externally" is my "inner/outer". We are on the same wave, magkaiba lang sa pagkaka explain. Magulo talga ako mag explain eh.

[Kyon-ko]

Pero kaya ko nga nilagyan nung nakaparenthesis na (FTCBC) eh. Pero sige, para walang confusion, I'll use the term "choices" then or yung FTCBC para mas smooth.

Even if you change the terms, my stand will still be the same. There is no such thing as 'free will'.

Please tell me why and how 'free will' exists.

2. Now suppose napagdecide-an nila na wala naman palang problemang magpalipad ng airplanes at magsulat sa blackboard at magvandal...Payag po ba kayo? I mean, look at it birds-eye-view..

Is the outside observer an authority figure?

[Aga Mulat]

There are cause and effects in our daily living. We decide to do one thing at a time usually something to progress our situation aiming for a good/positive effect.

We are aware of the pros and cons of doing positive and negative actions. Still, each and everyone of us have decided (willed freely) to commit to an action that leads to a negative result just out of curiosity. Unavoidedly, we suffered the effects.

Alisin natin man ang God, we are still faced with decision-making, life-changing will that we so freely exercise every single day of our life.